Curse

IceD'Bear · Apr 18, 2005, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manderlock

Is this true?

Yes, you can buy steel from the crafter for wood and iron.

Manderlock · Apr 18, 2005, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceD'Bear

Yes, you can buy steel from the crafter for wood and iron.

many many cures words ran through me head just now, i searched for HOURS looking for looking for thos damn peices of scrap metal.

Volume II · Apr 18, 2005, 10:41 AM // 10:41

rofl. I guess I could understand a mistake like that. Interesting thing about drops for me. When I played PvE, whenever I got dye, it was black. Always. I got maybe only one other color. It was crazy. Of course, I managed to only pick up five dyes the entire time, but...

And I always got these mad bows and stuff, and I would be and elementalist or warrior. It was wierd.

And as for the guy complaining about not being able to jump and stuff, name as many RPGs that let you jump that you can. There aren't very many. I can say Morrowind, and maybe a few others, but that's it. Jumping really isn't all that important in this game, anyway.

As for Justice,

The graphics for GW are some of the best I have ever seen in an RPG to date (Oblivion will for obvious reasons blow everything else out of the water

). They are also stylish, and not WoW stylish. This stylish isn't an excuse for bad graphics overall.

Gameplay-wise- I never ran into the problem you speak. Maye I don't really notice it, or it really isn't all that serious, but I haven't had much trouble getting out of scuffles, unless I get slowed or something. And BTW, I usually play as an ele. If you don't like the melee people bashing on you, be mean and go air ele, cast glimmering mark on them, and then just continuosly hit them with lightning damage. It's quite amusing to watch a warrior or two swinging his mighty hammer around, completely useless.

Pulpmill · Apr 18, 2005, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Positives:
-Beautiful Graphics
-Fun Combat
-Limiting skill bar so you have to think about what you're going to bring
-Instanced Wildernesses

Negatives:
(A lot of my negatives have already been covered, but here are a few worth mentioning again - and a new one)
-Hard to communicate
-Bad interface for finding teams (in a game about teamwork, this is criminal)
-No way to see what quests your team has in common

-Terrible community. The post about the bad experience with a team was typical of my team atempts. People would talk in l33t speak or not talk at all. No one would answer simple questions like "What would you like to do next?" or "Do you have a quest in this area?" I joined a guild and my guildmates were so busy on the guild channel playing music trivia that they weren't concentrating on the mission and ignored the non-guild team members. People would run off and attack monsters without any warning or "Ready?" People would quit without warning and leave you stranded. No one seemed invested in the "reality" of the quest, or the game in general. There was very little, "Oh no so-and-so is in trouble! Save him!" I have a feeling part of the reason for this is how difficult it is to communicate in the game.

-My last negative is hard to sum up. I've been trying to think since I started playing this, my second BWE, why I was having trouble staying interested. And believe me, if I loved the game all the little difficulties I've mentioned wouldn't matter. I should love it. I like sword and sorcery. I like MMOGs. I like combat and adventure and RPGs, but I found myself going back to City of Heroes at around midnight last night. Not a good sign.

Anyhow, I think I've figured out my problem with it. It doesn't feel like a real world. It looks great, but it feels like a bunch of PS2 levels instead of a real wilderness you're moving through. The towns aren't towns. There are no taverns or places to hang out. After the Searing there are no NPCs wandering around except quest givers and collecters. Where are the people all us Warriors and Monks and Necromancers are protecting? There are no interiors except dungeons. You can't go in the houses or stores. I know it's nerdy to say, but in City of Heroes I really feel like I'm saving the city and protecting it's citizens. What I do matters.

The other thing is that, at least as far as I got in the game, the PvE storyline doesn't have much to do with the PvP aspects and vice wersa. What function do guilds serve in the land of Ascalon? Are they political factions? What are they fighting for in the story of the game? Does the ladder ranking have any in-game reason for being? Does it mean anything, story-wise? Are the guild halls located in the world? Could I travel to yours if I was just walking around? Is guild versus guild conflict frowned upon by the government of Ascalon City? Do they support it? Do they want to ban it? Is it like Fight Club?

It seems like you run around in the world just to win stuff you can use to fight in the arenas, and that all the quest-storys are just so much fluff to cover the bare bones of that fact. But fighting in the arenas doesn't then change the story of the game, so it's really just a seperate game that you play with the same interface. This makes the whole experience feel artificial and game-like. And of course it IS a game, but MMORPGs tradionally try to be more immersive, and this game is not.

In fact, I read an article linked to the GW site where the lead designer guy said that Guild Wars is not an MMORPG. But if that's the case, they should just drop the half-hearted RPG aspects and turn it into a Sword and Sorcery version of Unreal Tournement like they seem to want to.

Okay. I'm done. I appologize for rambling. Hard to put into words the vague feelings of dissatisfaction I was feeling during this BWE. I hope these comments have been constructive and not just whining.

Thanks for letting me play.

Bamelin · Apr 18, 2005, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Going to repost this here ... somehow I missed this thread when I made my origional post:

Ok I've taken part in a few beta weekends and here are my thoughts:

Personal View:

The artwork in the game game is beautiful. It's like they drew all the things I always imagined a fantasy world to be. The attention to detail is astounding. Like when your in Borelis and it's snowing all around. And then you notice everyone even has fog coming out of their mouth as their breath touches the freezing air. I didn't notice that at first but when I did I marvelled at it.

I'm not really explaining this well so let me move on:

In other MMO's like DAOC or EQ I felt like a faceless charachter. The missions and quests blew in those games mostly revolving around delivering package A to Point B.

Guildwars is different. In Guildwars I feel like a "hero". The story is all about YOU and YOUR adventures through it. It's the most interactive MMO ever conceived in part because it doesn't take 20 years to make it to the high end content and also in part because of the genious of instanced missions woven together like chapters of a book.

The people complaining the loudest are the one's that want to grind.

For me I see Guildwars as an interactive movie/novel. The story is extremely deep and it is driven not by power lvler Joe Blow's famous deeds, it is driven by MY deeds ... at whatever pace I am comfortable with. Each mission is a chapter of MY book, which I can read at MY pace.

This is where Guildwars really shine's from a PvE perspective ...

The ability to lvl quickly also has the added benefit of allowing even CASUAL players to tinker with different avatars ....

In most MMO's your stuck with whatever build you picked on day 1 unless your willing to "reroll" and invest another million years lvling up. Not so with GuildWars.

PvP is a fun bonus but it's the PvE that really hooked me.

I've read in other threads people bemoaning how "short" the PvE content is (or will be).

Let me set something straight right now. The content is about the same as what you get in EQ, AC, DAOC and many other games. The difference is that it won't take you 10 billion years to access that content through mindless lvling. As a family man with other responsibilities I appreciate this more so than power lvlers might.

"But Bamelin if I can get through the PvE content so quickly what next? I don't like PvP!"

Guess what? Guildwars is not meant for PvE'ers to play for years grinding away. This is why there will be tons of expansions. Compare the PvE content to that of a great book in a Trilogy ... you may finish book one but your probaly going to buy book two the second it comes out.

That said I can totally see myself playing this game nonstop for a couple months, maybe running through the PvE content several times with different builds and avatars. The interactive feeling of the game is pure additicion. And then once the PvE gets stale I may not play for a few months ... but you can be damned sure I will be eagerly awaiting the next "book" (expansion) in the Guildwars saga.

This is ok with me. GuildWars for me, is about getting to be a focal character in an epic fantasy story, a story that only moves when I choose to play the game. It's not about the time spent lving, it's about ME and MY actions in game.

Bamelin

---------------------

The ironic thing is I feel exactly the opposite from Pulpmill regarding the game's immersive qualities. I've never been pulled into an MMO the way Guildwars sucked me in.

Personally I think the game world looks more "real" than any other MMO I've ever played. I agree the game caters to the Dungeon Seige/Diablo item crazy crowd but is that nessecarily a bad thing? Not every game out there has to be an EQ grind fest, nor do the items have to require a billion hours to obtain. I love the diversity of the items to be found, I love the diversity of pickup groups I find myself in. I've run into one idiot in my time PvE'ing. And that idiot was promptly turfed from the group within 20 minutes of joining.

But hell you get that in ANY mmo whether it's Guildwars OR EQ or whatever other MMO floats your boat.

One last note: Guildwars is not an MMO ... in the TRADITIONAL EQ sense of the word. But who said EQ/DAOC/AC/etc have the god given rights to the term MMORPG? GuildWars is reinventing what an MMO can be ... breaking the tired old traditions of monthly fees, endless levelling and static endless gameplay.

Bamelin

perendengue · Apr 18, 2005, 01:09 PM // 13:09

I am with Bamelin on that one.

the pve in this game feels like the designers actually took a storyline into account as opposed to a bunch of game mechanics then some mostly content free quests thrown into the mix.

WoW took the approach of putting more text onto the same quest structure that DAOC has...While the shortterm quests are like that in GW as well, the overall story arch exists with scripted missions that you move through as you discover them.

you have to move through regions exploring to open up new areas...not pay two bits and hop on a horse. There is actually a transition between story elements...and actually there are story elements in the first place that involve discovery.

I don't know...we'll see how the expansions pan out, but I seriously love the idea that 20 is the top lvl, 20-30 hours to get there and then pve content is totally geared for that lvl....no bunny rabbit zones with each expansion....blah blah blah.

Should be interesting...and *gasp* achievable in under 6-10 months for those of us with families and jobs.

Bamelin · Apr 18, 2005, 01:28 PM // 13:28

I love the "lvl 20 only" content for exansions as well. This will allow the designers to put together an expansion that doesn't have to appeal to a multitude of players at different levels. No doubt this will allow for the same immersive storytelling we've seen thus far.

Just a few more comments:

When I first started beta everybody started at lvl 10 in Lion's Arch. I was using a key from some mag website and lost access a few months ago. This weekend I picked up the pre order and started from the beginning. I had read no websites or story spoilers.

My point?

The whole Searing thing absolutely blew my mind. I was literally running around after that cutscene shouting some nonsense about the world ending.
It was that much of a shock.

After getting used to my new surroundings and playing pratically 15 hours straight I visited Ascalon, now a lvl 10 mo/ele. Walking around I listened to what people were saying.

"OMG WHAT HAPPENED HAPPENED?!!"
"WTF!?!?!"
"AHH THE WORLD IS ENDING!!"
"OH SH*t look at the city!!!"

Immersion my friends. Colourful language of it's participants aside, the Guildwars story, combined with masterful artwork has caught up thousands of players who are each getting to play out that story in the instanced chapters.

THAT is the success of Guildwars PvE.

I could care LESS if I finish all the PvE content in under a month. Honestly I'm paying for the experience of feeling like I'm an active participant in a great book.

And the great thing is when I finish the book I get to look forward to the next chapter.

Or I can reread the book but this time play a different character. Bamelin the Monk can become Bamelin the Warrior or Bamelin the Mesmer.

The spell ability system opens up endless possibilities of crafting a new avatar, and unlike most MMO's out there you get literally dozens of those spells and abilities within the first 20 hours of gameplay.

I could go on and on about how much better this game is to me than any of the other garbage out there but I've got class now ...

Suffice to say it the positives of this game FAR outweigh the negatives.

It's all about perspective. If your looking for another run of the mill MMO, then no I guess GuildWars is not for you. If your looking for something that's totally different while still retaining the fun parts of what made MMO's so interesting .... then yes Guildwars probaly is for you.

Bamelin

perendengue · Apr 18, 2005, 02:18 PM // 14:18

another nice thing, each skill is different, you are not lvling to lvl 50 just to get an updated version of the same spell every 10 lvls.

Promo · Apr 18, 2005, 09:57 PM // 21:57

How I see this game shaping.

From a PvE perspective, I see a lot of camping in towns looking for a group. Or finding agroup looking for members but of a class thats not yours. "sorry we don't need another ranger we have 2" "sorry we have a tank we need a healer" "Sorry we are looking for another healer not dps" then you get a group with a healer after about an hour of looking and waiting and your all set. Only now the tank has bedtime in a half hour so you have to find another one to fill his shoes. You find another tank (which wasn't that hard) and head out to do mission. You do a mission for awhile only one of the members does something stupid and gets the whole group killed. Of course this pisses of the warrior, because warriors are always the first to get pissed off when this happens, and decides to leave group. So back to the town to find another tank, because you can't find members in the middle of an area. You find another tank and repeat the mission process. This time the tactics work better and things are going well. You group is exploring and finding gear and having a grand time. For about 45 mins. Then the healers girlfriend is having a tizzy so he has to leave (its a he even though the character was a cutie female). So the whole group heads back to town and falls apart. So there you are back to spamming "20 mes/el looking for a group"....

I think the thing is this an an arcade game presented in an mmo format. Its more for the platform game player that doesn't have the attention span to create a character, or the imagination of what an online community is. It will probably do well in filling the need of the weekend "paintballer" that likes wearing headsets and competing in an arena.

I was dissapointed. The graphics were pretty but hardly up to par with new generation MMos. The fighting has been dumbed down. It reminds me more of UO with abilities. I watched my guy get hit and hit, back and forth, push a skill he hits, not really any different animations. I kept yelling move, dodge do something at the monitor.

Anyone who is saying there are more tactics involved in this game, are fooling themselves. Making the better build is not skill. Spamming a few abilities over and over again is not skill.

I liked the idea of a level 20 cap. I agree that a game could be much more than a level treadmill, as long as the content is geared for that. But this game is going to lose the MMORPG pie by not catering more to what they have grown to expect. Innovative fighting, community feel, crafting, immersion. Which is too bad. You take the premise of the game with pvp arenas and a purpose to them. The level cap. Hell even keep the graphics since any system could run them smooth. And put it say, in a DAoC setting (no I no longer play it) with realms fighting for a reason, good community etc. And you have a big winner here. Unfortunately this falls flat. IMO

wow that was a novel thanks for reading if you did.

Bamelin · Apr 19, 2005, 08:56 AM // 08:56

It's funny the range of opinons regarding this game. I totally disagree with you Promo. I've never had problems finding a group in town. That said, I play a healer which may make things easier for me. Most people I've talked to though had *no* problems.

Guildwars is also very much a social game geared to guild play even in PvE. Some of the best gameplay time is going to come through grouping with guild members whose abilities compliment each other.

Promo Wrote:
I think the thing is this an an arcade game presented in an mmo format. Its more for the platform game player that doesn't have the attention span to create a character, or the imagination of what an online community is.

Oh man your so wrong. I assure you I've played in numerous "online communities" ranging from your traditional MMO's like EQ, AC, AC2, UO and DAOC to non traditional MMO's like Planetside and Darkspace.

For many players it's not about attention span. It's about TIME. Not everyone has 100,000 hours available to level up an avatar. Yes GuildWars caters to the casual player through it's instanced "chapter" format but the hardcore gamer also get's their pie too through the thousands of avatar builds they can experiment with.

Promo Wrote:
Anyone who is saying there are more tactics involved in this game, are fooling themselves. Making the better build is not skill. Spamming a few abilities over and over again is not skill.

Making a build that compliments your team for PvP OR PvE play IS skill. Practicing with your group the optimal placement of monks, number of monks, skill the monks should have, and repeating this process with each class IS skill and DOES require tactics. And unlike DAOC or many other MMO's out there you have a mydriad of options (skills and abilities to choose from) EVERY time you go out on a mission. You are not "locked" into a set template.

Promo Wrote:
But this game is going to lose the MMORPG pie by not catering more to what they have grown to expect.

10,000 year lvling treadmills, shitty crafting systems, static skill templates, boring story arcs? I don't know about everyone else but that's whay I had come to expect from most MMO's. Guildwars not only breaks the old MMO mold it REINVENTS it ... for the better.

Bamelin

Firndeloth · Apr 25, 2005, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Anyone who dislikes the level cap should go play the worst MMO ever made; Runescpe. you come in as a levl zilch with level 60's stealing all the wuests that everyone elses is doing at the same time and theres a small scrap of PVP land where you get instantly creamed by high level users. And it censors bugger along with cussing, which makes no sense... might as well censor drat.... anyway, Waht's wrong with a little skill involved? What's wrong with some thinking? I DO like how this game is shping up. However: the jumping thing really gets on my nerves. No matter how much I enjoy NWN it always makes me want to scream when I stop moving infront of a pebble. Aslo: though i will probably enjoy the combat system espechially since it's fairly unique, i can't decide wheather or not I would prefer a more... how to put it... not early-PS2-combos. 1-z-a-4 does this punch ect., I don't like combo games, but i would like to control the each sword swing, each hammer blow, each thrust of my shield or buckler. A you-keyboard-weapon control interface. But that's another rather unrelated rambling. What i was going to put after the anyway, is that I agree with.. whoever siad they didn't like the lack of NPC's running around for little purpose but flesh of the game. RTS's like AOE III, and BFME have birds and badgers, deers and dogs, all wondering around. RTSs!!! They're zoomed out to a 500 ft above the ground and are a less personal game. It's as third person as you can get. (BFME is one of the best games ever BTW) This is supposed to be personal. your in the world. it's in the genre of RPG for crying out loud! And they can't manage a fly, or a toad, or a knitting grandmother? Reminds me of how dissapointed i was when i first played BF1942 and set TNT by a door to no affect whatsoever. Then again EA fixed that in BF2. So why should guildwars get behind before it even begins?
Ok. Next point. Anyone here looked at Vangaurd by microsoft? Graphics shot down the tubes but some fascinating details and features. Why does every MMO wither hit graphics and drop gameplay, or visa-versa? So many MMO's miss crucial asspects that thier predessesors should have given signs to include. Why is guildwars so fixed on little hard drive space? If they can do this much on a little, why not go all the way on standard at-home-data capacity AND the extra load on server storage? All these revolutionary ideas, but they leave out the basics. It's like making a calculater that can play games and type, and send e-mail, but it can't add or subtract. It's not a calculater anymore, and iun fact never was. STOP LEAVING OuT THE BEST STUFF WHEN YOU ADD THE TECH!

Firndeloth · Apr 25, 2005, 02:35 AM // 02:35

It's one thing to be able to open a door. it's another to see every splinter on said door. And it's an entierly, and for some reason rarely considered, to be able to do both. Why is this? Because they don't want to commit the money or time when they are unsure if they'll succeed. They're stepping into some new things in the MMORPG genre, so, just like ultima, they're at least a bit tentative. Weather or not this is the real reason for holding back some of the stops, i don't know. All I know is i like the flavor of the wine in some of those kegs and would like it if they'd pull the stops.

Devil's Dictionary · Apr 25, 2005, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

From a PvE perspective, I see a lot of camping in towns looking for a group. Or finding agroup looking for members but of a class thats not yours.

Whereas you are not entirely wrong, Promo, after a few days you should find a good bunch of players you could play with. It's not really that different from other games.

Quote:

I think the thing is this an an arcade game presented in an mmo format. Its more for the platform game player that doesn't have the attention span to create a character, or the imagination of what an online community is. It will probably do well in filling the need of the weekend "paintballer" that likes wearing headsets and competing in an arena.

Arcade game? Platformer? Paintballer? Are you so focused on trashing GW that you are just starting to throw random words you consider insulting? How long have you played the beta anyway? All the tactics start in post-searing Ascalon. Pre-seared Ascalon is a tutorial which you can finish alone.

Quote:

The fighting has been dumbed down. It reminds me more of UO with abilities. I watched my guy get hit and hit, back and forth, push a skill he hits, not really any different animations. I kept yelling move, dodge do something at the monitor.

The fighting dumbed down? In all MMO games I played the combat was just clicking like crazy at a monster hoping he's a few levels below you. If you actually moved, dodged, done something instead of screaming at your monitor, you might've enjoyed the game.

Dreamsmith · Apr 25, 2005, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Promo

But this game is going to lose the MMORPG pie by not catering more to what they have grown to expect.

That may in fact be the point. When you take a look at the subscription figures of any MMORPG and compare it to sales figures of Blizzard games during the era the ArenaNet people were a part of Blizzard (for example, Diablo II) you'll see what I'm getting at. The MMORPG pie is not a very big pie to begin with. Attempting to grab a piece of that pie, no matter how large a slice you get, it's not much pie compared to the gaming market in general.

GW is meant to appeal to a far wider market than MMORPGers, and thus shouldn't be going too far out of its way to give MMORPGers what they expect. They are a significant but smaller segment of the market than I think ArenaNet is hoping to capture. If GW is only as successful as an MMORPG in terms of sales, it's going to be very mediocre indeed. GW should aim much higher than that.

GW aims to entice a lot of people who hate MMORPGs, by offering an online game without all the things we hate in MMORPGs, and looking at the sales figures of MMORPGs vs. other games, I'd say that's actually a much bigger market indeed. If GW looses the hardcore MMORPGers in the process, well, so what? That's really not that big a market to begin with, so it's really not that big a loss...

Firndeloth · Apr 25, 2005, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamsmith

"GW aims to entice a lot of people who hate MMORPGs, by offering an online game without all the things we hate in MMORPGs, and looking at the sales figures of MMORPGs vs. other games..."

Correction: It seems to have a few of the aforesaid things we hate about MMORPGs. 1)No jumping 2)No layered clothing system 3)And a few that we don't hate about ALL but hate about some or like about some but didn't get in GW ect. Or is the above 'we' myself and one or two people who know nothing of GW? I wouldn't put it past anyone not to see my angle... nm...

MoldyRiceFrenzy · Apr 25, 2005, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Yep i feel that road to 20 is short and that the pvp is vey repetitive...
they need more creative pvp type battles.

Weezer_Blue · Apr 25, 2005, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strycker

Positives

- Lots of area to explore
- Fun missions
- Cool classes
- Cool skill system
- Beautiful graphics
- Fast combat, with no downtime

Negatives

- Repetive PVP (Which is a huge chunk of the game) (Least it seemed repetive when I tried PVP only)

- Not much to do at 20, and the road to 20 is short

The negatives are 2 very huge things, it attracts PVE players for the first 20 levels, then forces them into PVP and PVP is rather repetive. Comeon, I cant see myself doing PVP for more then a month, let alone a year or 2. Im completely on the fence to whether or not I should buy this game. Anyone else feel the way I do?

your two negitives are completely untrue. what have you been smoking?

"not much to do at 20". What the hell?! The game BEGINS at 20! The road is short because the road just happens to be a tutorial! Not to mention you haven't seen half of the missions and even less of the explorable areas to go through once you're at it.

and repetitive PvP? PvP is never repetitive because you go against differing opponents every time. Sure, the arena you fight in is the same quite often, but never will you have an identical battle like you will in PvE.

Mulk · Apr 25, 2005, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Um why would these people who made Guildwars worry about trying to get a piece of the MMO pie again? MMO gamers are the minority of gaming if you haven't noticed. 1.5 million people in WoW, 500k in EQ, and 350k in EQ2.

I think The Sims series alone has sold more copies than all MMO's every made most likely. I'm coming from EQ/WoW I don't want a earth shattering MMO I just want a freaking game that is fun that doesn't require grinding 1000000000 levels and raiding for month to get a few pieces of gear. Oh and just a slight nod to balance it doesn't even have to be a level playing just just tilted at no more than a 50 degree angle if possible.

Fun? Anyone remeber it? Thats what I want out of this game not a lvl 70 Magicain or a lvl 60 Warlock in the best of the best super radical armor. If I want that I can connect to WoW.

Fun darn it!! GIVE IT TO ME!!

Mulk

spiritofcat · Apr 25, 2005, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everous

all these years...i've been misusing it
...i can feel my street-cred dropping this very minute >.O

Pounds are called Quid in 'street talk' as far as I know...

Strycker · Apr 25, 2005, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

your two negitives are completely untrue. what have you been smoking?

"not much to do at 20". What the hell?! The game BEGINS at 20! The road is short because the road just happens to be a tutorial! Not to mention you haven't seen half of the missions and even less of the explorable areas to go through once you're at it.

and repetitive PvP? PvP is never repetitive because you go against differing opponents every time. Sure, the arena you fight in is the same quite often, but never will you have an identical battle like you will in PvE.

How do you know the game begins at 20? What is there to do at 20 for people that find PVP repetive? Honestly, the PVP for me was repetive, you use the same strategy over, and over dependin on what class you are. Seriously, if they add 10 missions at release, and a few more quests, its not gonna change my mind about nothin to do at 20. We dont need more content of the same thing, we need variety.